--- title: "You Can't Sword-Fight a Bullet: Alberto Torres on surviving disruption — The Coordination Tax" description: "Alberto Torres — former Nokia executive, ex-McKinsey partner, and author of The Z Curve — on what actually happened at Nokia, why great peace-time leaders quietly fail in war-time, and what every company facing AI right now should learn from the companies that got disruption right." url: https://www.in-parallel.com/podcast/you-cant-sword-fight-a-bullet-alberto-torres --- Leadership Insights # You Can't Sword-Fight a Bullet: Alberto Torres on surviving disruption Episode notes ## The conversation, captured **Date** September 8, 2026 **Participants** Kristian Luoma Alberto Torres The Coordination Tax is a podcast by In Parallel about what actually breaks down when teams stop sharing the same reality. In this episode, host Kristian Luoma sits down with Alberto Torres — former Nokia executive, ex-McKinsey partner, and author of The Z Curve — who sat inside one of the most famous corporate collapses of the last two decades. Alberto joined Nokia in 2009 as part of the leadership team trying to turn the ship around, ran Vertu and the accessories group before that, and later held roles at Opera, Bang & Olufsen, and Adobe, where he works today. The conversation is about why every disruption looks like a peace-time problem until the swordsman meets the bullet: what actually happened at Nokia, why the leadership model that works in peace-time is the wrong one in war-time, why you don't get radical action by averaging opinions, and what every company facing AI right now should learn from the companies that got disruption right. ### Summary - Stephen Elop wasn't the only culprit. Nokia's collapse was set up years before the burning-platform memo, inside a leadership system that could not see what was coming. - Organizations in disruption live in split reality: the numbers still say the old business is winning while the ground underneath it has already gone. - You can't sword-fight a bullet. When the weapon changes, being the best swordsman in the world is the wrong thing to be good at. - Peace-time leadership empowers, aligns, and averages. War-time leadership concentrates decisions and moves before consensus exists. Most great peace-time leaders quietly fail in war-time. - Nokia shipped 400 beautiful hardware models and had no software strategy. Excellence at the old game is not a defence against the new one. - The S-curve explains why nobody could see it coming: the incumbent is still climbing while the challenger's curve is invisible below the noise. - Every organization facing disruption splits into continuity voters, fatalists, and a muddled middle. The continuity voters are always right — until they're not. - Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was a good peace-time CEO. The problem was the time, not the CEO. - You don't get radical action by averaging opinions. Consensus produces the median move, and the median move loses to a disruption. - The Z-curve is the ignored half of the S-curve: the old business doesn't plateau gently, it falls off, and the fall is faster than any plan assumes. - Adobe's move from boxed software to Creative Cloud is the model for deliberate self-disruption: cannibalise a successful business on purpose, before someone else does it for you. - Netflix killed its own DVD business while it was still profitable. Self-disruption means giving up a working business, not just adding a new one. - AI is the next internet-scale disruption, and the winners will be picked in the next few years. - The one thing to do this week: decide honestly whether you are at the start of a Z-curve, and if you are, stop managing for peace-time. ### What was discussed Stephen Elop wasn't the only culprit — an insider view of Nokia's collapse Story - The burning-platform memo gets the blame, but the collapse was set up years earlier inside the leadership system. - Alberto joined Nokia in 2009 as part of the leadership team trying to turn the ship around. Why organizations live in split reality Key insight - The dashboards keep reporting that the old business is winning while the ground beneath it has already shifted. - Two true stories coexist in the same company, and leadership picks the comfortable one. The swordsman and the bullet Highlight - The metaphor at the heart of The Z Curve — you can't sword-fight a bullet. - When the weapon changes, being the best at the old weapon is exactly the wrong thing to be good at. Peace-time leadership vs war-time leadership Key insight - Empowerment is the right leadership model in peace-time and the wrong one in disruption. - War-time leadership concentrates decisions and moves before consensus exists. 400 beautiful hardware models — and no software strategy Story - Nokia's excellence was real, and it was excellence at the game that was ending. - Hardware craft could not answer a platform shift. Joining Nokia in 2009 Story - What it felt like from inside the leadership team trying to turn the ship around. The S-curve theory and why we couldn't see it coming Key insight - The incumbent's curve is still climbing while the challenger's curve sits invisibly below the noise. - By the time the challenger is visible in the numbers, the response window has mostly closed. Continuity voters, fatalists, and the muddled middle Key insight - Every organization facing disruption splits into three camps. - The people who vote for continuity are always right — until they're not. Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo — the peace-time CEO Story - A good peace-time CEO facing a war-time problem. "You don't get radical action by averaging opinions" Highlight - Consensus produces the median move, and the median move loses to a disruption. The Z-curve — the ignored half of the S-curve Key insight - The old business doesn't plateau gently. It falls off, faster than any plan assumes. - Reading the Z-curve in real time is the skill the book is written to teach. The Dreams framework — how Adobe transformed Highlight - Adobe cannibalised its own boxed-software business on purpose to move to Creative Cloud. - Self-disruption done deliberately, before someone else does it for you. Netflix cannibalising itself — how to disrupt yourself Highlight - Netflix killed its own profitable DVD business to make room for streaming. - Self-disruption means giving up a working business, not just adding a new one. AI is the next Nokia moment Key insight - AI is the next internet-scale disruption. - The winners will be picked in the next few years. What to do this week if you're facing disruption Highlight - Decide honestly whether you are at the start of a Z-curve. - If you are, stop managing for peace-time. ## Links Alberto Torres on LinkedIn: [linkedin.com/in/torresalberto](https://www.linkedin.com/in/torresalberto/) The Z Curve on Amazon: [amazon.com](https://www.amazon.com/Z-Curve-Alberto-Torres/dp/1917391676) The Coordination Tax Index 2026: [download the report](https://www.in-parallel.com/coordination-tax/#report) ## Listen [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6F4Xl7-EXo) ### Get new episodes in your inbox One email per week on execution intelligence, team coordination, and enterprise AI. No fluff. By subscribing you agree to our [Privacy Policy](https://www.in-parallel.com/privacy-policy). Unsubscribe anytime. [Back to all episodes](https://www.in-parallel.com/podcast/episodes) [Book a demo](https://www.in-parallel.com/demo) ## More episodes The Coordination Tax — Richard H. 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